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thewakemods) wrote2016-08-20 12:43 pm
thewakemods) wrote2016-08-20 12:43 pm
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Warning, the history section can be PTSD triggery. I did my best to limit it.
Practical/mechanics:
While Osgood is not one character who got split into two bodies, what she is, in essence, is one character that used to be multiple. The original Osgood, the Zygon who joined with her in the multi-Doctor special, and Bonnie/Zygella all merged to become a single character. While yes, they have separate bodies, their histories and thoughts have merged and blended. They know which is which, but each treats the other as herself.
Functionally, they have a constantly running psychic link. While we did see in the two part episode Zygon Invasion/Zygon Inversion that one can live separately if the other dies, I do not honestly believe it is functionally possible for different players to play the multiple ones because they are CONSTANTLY in each other's heads. What one sees the other sees, as she sees it. They finish each other's sentences, because they have the same thought.
This is a good example of how they speak. They try to be polite to each other, but they are each other. You can tell that is not rehearsed - I think that's what the "do you want to?" bit is there to show us. But then they proceed to speak in unison and go from that to finishing sentences for each other. (Start from 1:00 and go to 2:38)
So I do not honestly think that two players could play Osgood collectively. Also, honestly... There are two more problems with two players (or three, potentially) playing her, even if they were co-ordinating OOC and never was on hiatus out of sync with each other, and could keep
1 - The threads would be untenably and unnaturally massive, making it hard for the other characters' players to know when it is their turn to talk, because the Osgoods would be splitting sentences up whenever they are together.
2 - Since the whole point of Osgood, her whole role in canon, is that no one - not even the Doctor - ever knows which one is which, two different journal names, with different icon sets gives meta-knowledge. The point isn't that you don't know if this Osgood is the one you were talking to last week... the point is to get everyone to realize that it doesn't matter. Osgood is Osgood. Human, Zygon, the one you met this morning, the one you'll meet tomorrow, the one you meet next week. The whole point of her is that she is OSGOOD.
For all intents and purposes, Osgood, all three Osgoods are the same character. If you spoke to one Osgood today and the other tomorrow, the one you speak to tomorrow is still the one you spoke to today. Their thoughts are linked, they share the experiences of the people they were before and add them to the mess that is Osgood.
I will try to make that clearer in the history section below as well. While I can understand if you wanted double AC because there are two bodies, and can understand if you only want there to be one of her (though I honestly probably will not play her, since there is no one in game who knows there should be two), the reason that someone else might want to play an Osgood, I think, would not be an issue, because anyone who would want to play Osgood would understand that she is Osgood and cannot be split among two journals.
However, if your concern is character hoarding, I would be fine with anyone wanting to play Bonnie/Zygella before she became an Osgood, and treating that like the different incarnations of the Doctor. The Ninth Doctor could be apped in, even though the Tenth is in play. (at least that is the way it is in most other games I've apped into, so I presume it is the same here, if I am wrong, I apologize.) The Tenth Doctor has all the memories of the Ninth, and more, and the more is a big part of what makes him him, and makes him a separate character.
We see very little of Osgood and the first Zygon before they mentally linked, which I think would make it hard for anyone to claim either of them as a separate character that way, but the argument could be made for Bonnie.
I do not see Osgood, if there are two bodies allowed, as two separate characters, which is why I do not see a playercrest issue.
Also (this came up as I was working on the history section, so I;m sorry that it is a little out of sequence here) It will be nearly impossible for two players to suss out which parts of the episode are which Osgood. Hopefully that will be illustrated below.
History will be in Part 2, apparently I went over character limit.
Part two, and again, thank you.
History: (will try to make this more list like, for clarity sake)
Starting with the first Osgood:
She worked for UNIT, building things that would create peace, and would make weapons useless.
One day she gets to meet her idol - the Doctor - because there is something wrong in the Under Gallery. Paintings of figures are now missing the figures.
The Doctor orders Osgood to analyze stone dust found in a hall of covered statues. (You can almost see her crush/fan girl freak out)
The statues aren't statues, they're the missing people from the pictures - who are Zygons, a shape changing race that form a psychic link with the person they are copying, knowing all they know. (If you know Animorphs, the Yeerks aren't a perfect comparison, but it gives a general idea of depth of knowledge.) The stone dust is all that remains of the original statues
One Zygon copies Osgood, and steals her inhaler. She mocks her based on the information she got in her mind. "So jelous of your pretty sister, I wish I copied her."
Osgood trips her double and flees, stealing back her inhaler.
One of the Osgoods follows another Zygon Duplicate into the Black Archive where a Zygon has made herself into Kate and brought Clara.
An Osgood, presumably the other, explores what is left where he Zygons had been, and finds Human Kate and releases her. So far this Osgood is acting more like you would expect from the Human, and the other is acting like you would expect of the Zygon.... This Osgood gives exposition about the Zygon's powers as theory.
The OSgood with Human Kate follows her to the Black Archive for a show down between Kate, Osgood, and the other scientist (McGillop) against their Zygon duplicates. It is clear which Kate is Kate because one transforms into Kate and the Zygon McGillop is very openly sneering about Humans. The two Osgoods are each with the sides they entered with, without giving an indication as to which is which for sure.
Human Kate arms a nuclear warhead to force the Zygon's hand, willing to destroy London to save the world.
Both Osgoods see that, and both hear the Doctors (there are three of them at this point, 10, 11, and the War Doctor (also known as 8.5, because things go weird with casting the episode and the actor who played 9 refused to come back, and 8 couldn't be used....) through what is essentially an intercom beg Kate not to be this stupid. Kate (Human) orders McGillop (Human) to switch it off.
The Kates wind up in a stalemate, where the Zygon Kate keeps trying to cancel the detonation, and the Human one to countermand that cancelation. Time is ticking away, and they are no closer to survival.
One of the Osgoods turns away, pained.
One of the Osgoods, possibly the one who turned away tearfully wishes for the Doctor to save them. "Doctor, please save us. Please save us. Please save us. Please save us."
A Dalek comes crashing through a painting, dead, followed by the three Doctors as if answering her prayer in the most impossible way ever.
11 demands to know what Kate is doing, but the reply from the other Kate makes it clear he was talking to the Zygon.
Osgood listens, both of them, as the Doctors talk about how they made the calculation to kill millions to save billions and how that was a mistake - one they wont let Kate duplicate. They take away every Zygon and every Human with a Zygon counterpart's ability to remember which of them is Human and which is Zygon. (0:21 - 1:00 in the video linked above)
There is a cut away after both Kates yell to cancel the detonation where both Kates, one Osgood, and one McGillop come into frame, one Osgood and one McGillop already there, negating any ability to use previous camera angels to tell which is which as they sit to negotiate.
While the Kates and McGillops are desperately negotiating, the Osgoods start chatting. "If I'm a Zygon then my clothes must be Zygon too. I wonder what happens if I lose a shoe...or something," one muses to the other. They are apart from everyone else, chatting with each other like old friends that had been seperated. Then one starts to choke. The one who joked about losing the shoe reaches into her pocket and pulls out their inhaler, offering it to the other, with a finger to their lips. The Osgoods are at that moment the only ones in the room who know for sure which they are. Last we saw, Human Osgood had the inhaler.
A smile is offered by the one who handed over the inhaler. An understanding reached with that kindness. And with the fact that she knew for a fact which she was, and did not tell anyone or try to manipulate things for her own side.
But at this point, both Osgoods have all the memories of their Human life to that point, and their Zygon life to that point, and that smile is the last thing we see of either Osgood for the rest of that episode.
While Tardis Wiki has some information on Osgood prior to this episode through the audio dramas, there is nothing else about her in the main TV canon prior to this point. We know that she is a fan girl of the Doctor, and that she has a sister she thinks is pretty, and is an asthmatic.
What we know about the first Zygon to become Osgood, before they merged:
The Zygons lost their planet during the early days of the Time War (The Time War the actual A plot of the episode, a huge moment in the Doctor's history, and a recurrent theme in the show) and sent a landing party to Earth to take it over. But Earth was not yet fit for Zygon inhabitation, so they sealed themselves away in time locked paintings, waiting for the planet to ripen and mature. This Zygon who never gets a name of his/her own is part of that landing party, and willingly locked into stasis. He/she never realizes that Queen Elizabeth the First ins't their leader still in a human form, and Elizabeth makes a comment about the Zygons all being male, though presumably that was based on attitude and she had no actual way to check.
We know that the Zygon was a bit cheeky and more than a bit rude; having all the spine that Osgood lacked at that point. "I do hate when I get a defective one" being one of the quips soon after taking Osgood's body. But Osgood does over take her, giving Osgood confidence while giving Osgood humility.
The time between is spent growing closer, working together to protect the peace treaty, and being given the Osgood box to watch over. (Above video) The Zygon never again takes any form other than Osgood's, except presumably in private to change clothes. Or maybe they have a work around for that. Very much not clear. They each get an inhaler, and they both work for Unit.
They are both Osgood.
We next see Osgood in Season 8, Death in Heaven. It is NEVER made clear which Osgood this is, and we only see one of her at a time.
Missy (The Master) has unleashed an army of Cybermen (big deal recurring bad species in the series) upon the world, and is gloating to the Doctor (12, this time.) that people are not realzing the danger, that all over the world, people are taking photos with the Cybermen and posting them on line. When Missy goes to take a selfie with the Doctor - just to really cheese him off, because she is freaking insane - and Osgood shows up, offering to take their picture, acting like just another tourist on the streets. There is a almost code word exchange moment with 12 where they acknoledge that they know who each other is, without cluing in Missy.
"Nice bowtie"
"Bowties are cool" is Osgood's response, a typical 11 response.
At Osgood's cue the UNIT soldiers infiltrated amongst the crowd move to surround them. Osgood does not hold a weapon of any sort, though she does hold onto Missy's cameralike device.
After Kate backs down the Cybermen, they go flying off, leaving Missy in UNIT custody. Osgood and the others watch as the dome of St. Pauls opens like a flower, releasing even more Cybermen into the sky. The Doctor tells Kate to hush so he can count, Osgood's reply is... "87, I think." A shrug, and "OCD." (Missy points out that the claim is 91)
Osgood is the one to explain why 91 (91 areas of specific population density in the British isles.) The Doctor takes Missy's device from her.
After UNIT tranqs Missy and 12, Osgood is the one that tries to comfort him. He grabs her by the front of her clothes and pulls her down to whisper frantically to her before passing out, warning them to guard the grave yards.
Osgood and Kate got the Tardis and the Doctor loaded onto "Boat One" a massive airplane.
Osgood tried to look like she wasn't listening as 12 - now President of Earth (long story) spoke with Missy, trying to get answers.
When 12 finished for the moment with Missy he checked in with Osgood who was trying to get whatever information she could off of Missy's device.
"Who is she?" OSgood asked.
"You'd never believe me if I told you."
"Because I thought she might be the Master, regenerated into female form." She points out that they do have files on all their Ex-prime ministers. (Meaning the Master, another long story there)
She then comments on the state of the clouds, something she would not be able to tell in that hollow "room" given the lack of windows, without the psychic connection to the other Osgood (hence my comment in the app about what the other one is doing off screen)
The Doctor makes a passing offer as he leaves the makeshift lab, that she could join him on the Tardis. Unclear if the offer is for one or both of them, he doesn't even mention the other Osgood, though given the timing of his comment, her comment about the clouds probably made him aware that there are still two Osgoods - and that he doesn't know which one he is dealing with....
And then, Missy kills her.
Apparently I need three parts. I am so sorry!
And then we don't see the remaining Osgood again until Season 9, The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion.
Osgood has mourned her "sister" meaning the other Osgood, not her actual sister. She kept working for the peace, in her own way, doing undercover work, and staying away from the people she knew in UNIT for a while.
And then the worst happened. The Nightmare Scenario. One or more of the Zygons was actively working to destroy the peace. Osgood got a message off to the Doctor just before she was captured by an unmasked Zygon in a town called Truth Or Consequences.
Splitting here for Osgood and soon to be Osgood, called for now, Bonnie:
Osgood:
Osgood was forced to record a message to UNIT, much like a hostage being forced to prove she is alright. But in this case, rather than reassurances, she is ordered to deliver the rebels' threats.
Bonnie (A Zygon hatched on Earth after the treaty): After kidnapping Clara - the Doctor's current companion - Bonnie sealed her away for safe keeping and took her form, heading out to stop UNIT from within, by being at the side of the Doctor.
Bonnie, with 12, got a tour of the current situation of the Zygons. Kate and 12 led her directly to the Zygon command centre. 12 then showed her how to operate the Zygon control Polyp.
"So Osgood's been kidnaped then? I thought Osgood was dead," Bonnie said.
"There have always been two of them, ever since the cease fire. We never knew which one was real," was Kate's answer.
"Both of them," from 12.
"Okay. Which one was Zygon?" Kate asked.
"Both of them. They would have maintained a live link. They were both Zygon and Human at the same time. They not only administered the peace, they were the peace."
"When the other Osgood died, the survivor went pretty much mad with greif, then she just dissapeared. Went undercover in the states. Now, of course, the Rebels have her," Jac informs 12, Bonnie, and the viewers.
Bonnie, 12, and the others watch a new video as it comes in, rebels killing the two Zygons in command on Earth. Bonnie got to listen to Kate make it clear she has no intention of negotiating with the new Zygon High Command. That she knows where they are, because it is where they're holding Osgood, and that she is going to bomb the whole area. Bonnie points out that their catchphrase "Truth or consequences" is a city in New Mexico.
Bonnie goes with Kate to see the Doctor off when he goes to rescue Osgood, sending Kate to New Mexico. Bonnie starts grilling Kate about the Human's defenses. She learns about a bio-weapon that can kill Zygons, and that the Doctor has it.
Bonnie convinces Jac to go back to her building, using a screaming child as bait to get Jac into the basement. Bonnie convinces Jac that they need reinforcements.
Jac shows Bonnie that she can gather info quickly, by finding proof that this is happening in lifts all across London.
Osgood:
The Doctor rescues her moments before UNIT bombs the base where she is being held. Osgood is the one who points out that they're going back to the UK, that if he's there with her, they got him out of the way, leaving the UK defenseless. Well... except for Clara....
Osgood:
Osgood and the Doctor, along with some troops and a Zygon hostage board Boat One, heading back for the UK. DEspite what Jac says, OSgood doesn't seem at all mad with grief, rather, she seems almost at peace. (I honestly had forgotten Jac had said that at all, because it didn't line up with how she acts in the episode.) And that is when the Doctor asks her for the first time "Which one are you? Human, or Zygon?"
"I don't answer that question."
"Why not?"
"Because there is no question to answer. I don't accept it. My sister and I were the living embodiment of the peace we made. I will give all the lives that I have to protect it. You want to know who I am, Doctor? I am the peace. I am Human and Zygon."
The Doctor then promises to keep secret that she's human, pointing out that if she were Zygon, and the Human were dead, she couldn't maintain the body print. Osgood pointed out "Those were the old rules" that things have changed, Zygons have developed new abilities. A psychic link helped, but was no longer quite as necessary. "Zygons only need to keep the original alive if they need more information from them. If the interrogation is over, then the original can die."
Bonnie:
Bonnie, Jac, and backup go down into the London underground (not the tube) and discover a cavern full of Zygon pods. It is later explained what they are as a lie, and then the truth comes out. The truth is that this is where humans that need to be kept alive are stored.) Bonnie tries to get the reinforcements to slaughter everyone in the pods. Jac, however, figures it out just in time. But not in time to escape. Bonnie orders the Zygons that were hiding to "kill the traitors." she is smiling as Jac screams.
Bonnie gets a big old bazooka and tries to shoot Boat One out of the air. Clara wakes up enough to stop her from killing him. But only just. Plane still goes down.
Bonnie, thinking she killed 12, goes on to start the next phase of her plans, forcing one of the Zygons to take his natural form, forcing him into the open, even though he was happy with his "human" existence and didn't want to be part of her war. She videos his public transformation and uploads it to the internet. She informs her troops that the change has started, and that she's going to UNIT to retrieve the Osgood box.
Osgood:
Thanks to a pair of parachutes, she and 12 manage to escape before the plane explodes, and even get to survive the experience, though her glasses do not fare nearly so well. The Doctor loans her his. She convinces him that Clara is still alive.
Bonnie:
Following the directions she got when Osgood was interrogated, Bonnie enters an abandoned looking building, and opens a safe behind a portrait of the First Doctor. Rather than a box, she finds a laptop. "Hello, if you're watching this, I have been captured and interrogated. During the interrogation, I have reviled to you the existence of the Osgood box." Osgood says from the video that loads as soon as the clam shell is opened. Both Osgoods. Both of them inform her, in the video "And guess what? I lied." Furious, Bonnie destroys the computer.
Bonnie called 12, unaware that Clara was pushing past her control to give him clues and hints with facial tics. Osgood helped with the escape so he could focus on the video call. 12 tells Clara to keep the Zygon out of her memories, especially those of the Osgood box, knowing that is the way to get Bonnie to bring Clara to the box, in the Black Archive. He and Osgood head their directly in a stolen van.
Bonnie did some deep diving into Clara's mind, learning more than she expected or intended to, making Clara more of herself than she had been. She is distracted enough by that to not realize that the Kate duplicate she orders around isn't a Zygon at all. Kate won her battle and is now playing undercover agent.
"Well, Clara," Bonnie said, seeing the Osgood box on a table in another room, "I think you're reachign the end of your - " the sentance is cut off as she sees reason why it is called the Osgood box. There are two of them.
The rest is as I described in my app. A game of chicken between Kate and Bonnie... Bonnie so sure that she will never be forgiven... but backing down anyway. The Doctor blanking the memory of Kate and the guards, and then leaving.
Then Osgood offers Bonnie a chance for a life, a chance for true forgiveness, a chance to be trusted. Bonnie sheds Clara's skin, though she keeps her memories, and joins a permanent mental link with Osgood, as Osgood had with her "sister". Bonnie becomes Osgood. Once again there are two Osgoods. One shared mind, one shared awareness. There is more now, more memories. All of Bonnies, and all of the ones Bonnie got from Clara are all mixed up in there. And they both learn and grow from that.
The new gestalt Osgood had the memories of the original Osgood, the original Zygon, Clara, and Bonnie. Once again 12 asks which is which. And they both answer, as Osgood always has "I'm Osgood." While aspects of Clara and Bonnie are there, the Osgood personality is the prime, it is the one in charge. They are both Osgood. Human and Zygon. A hybrid creature shared between two living bodies and one dead one.
Bonnie is gone. Bonnie is a part of Osgood, but Bonnie herself vanished when she took the link with Osgood. As Osgood and her double did in the first Osgood episode, so too did this pair. They are Osgood.
She is Osgood.
We are told that she will only ever answer which is which when the question no longer matters, and is no longer ask. When no one cares anymore about the answer. She idolizes the Doctor, she owes him, and he offered her the stars themselves, offered her - both of her - to join him in the Tardis. And she said no. Both of her.
I'm sorry that I got more into detail as I went, as I get tired, the filter of "useful/not useful" gets fuzzy, and I thought I had provided enough last time. Hopefully I have now fixed that.
In summery, basically.... I firmly believe that even across two bodies, she is one character. I am perfectly fine if someone wants to app a Bonnie from before she became Osgood. I think that could be a lot of fun to play against. I don't see that she would need double AC, since she is the same character, but am willing to pay that if it is the cost of admission.
To me, a huge part of what makes her interesting to play is that constant refrain of "but which one are you?" "I'm Osgood." In a game with no Kate, no 12, no Clara, there is no one to ask that without there being two bodies there, both Osgood. And as I said above, separate players with separate journals would not only be unwieldy and nearly impossible to play, it would also provide meta knowledge that would destroy the spirit of the character.
If you want to ask the other Who players for independent thoughts on Osgood, please be my guest. I acknowledge that my view is often not the mainstream one, and if the majority says I am wrong, I will chose someone different to app, without hard feelings. But I really do like Osgood, and do feel that she is a single character, and as such viable.
Thank you for putting up with me and reading all of this. :: Bows deeply:: I am sorry it is so long. But if there are any other questions at all, I am more than happy to answer them. Again, thank you. I appreciate being given this chance to clarify.
ALSO apologies but as a Who player... some additional clarity
In the case of Osgood vs. Osgood, this is not like a set of twins, but absolutely requires a single player, rather like Akito and Agito. Same brain, same experiences, except differing in the case of Ak/gito, same personality and voice. It's like a superhero disguise except in the case of Osgood, the disguise is the opposite. Given the rule about Ak/gito requiring the same body in order to keep it easier for other players to interact with, IRONICALLY I would suggest that it's easier to interact with Osgood having a double.
Osgood is an exceptional case to the zygons, BECAUSE of Osgood's extreme personality. She's so overpowering that she overtakes the zygon's individual personality and it becomes preoccupied/"possessed" by what Osgood wants. There are some other cases where this could happen, (such as with the clones including that of Amy, who were capable of being so convinced they were those they duplicated they were prejudiced against other clones) but Osgood is the only case for the zygons, which makes her extra difficult to play without her real duplicate purposely BECAUSE of how others treat her. She doesn't actually interact with herself, she only notices the ABSENCE of her other half. -> Something that would make for a more interesting character development event if Osgood (one) was ever killed, because even then the remaining Osgood would go into hiding (as aforementioned by her player) and fret about a zygon/human takeover until rescued/etc.
I know that's REALLY confusing sounding, and it's all VERY timey wimey, but basically, I'd rather Osgood could have her duo-part as still part of the one same person and player. It's sort of opposite how the Doctors are separate personalities that do in fact interact with each other, Osgood has no need of it because she is the same, with the same goals, same mind, same process of thoughts, and no change of mind. There's no need to talk to each other or interact, and indeed, they could not be played separately because every thought is the same and unlike twins, they aren't basically overcome by one identity. With the Doctor, it's different because he treats himself very differently and unlike Osgood, fights with himself, rather than having the same goals in mind, and indeed, each incarnation has a different thought process as well.
In my opinion, it's similar to how the Moment/Big Bad Wolf takes on Rose's personality and face, by borrowing the moment she rescues the Doctor, and then has the same goal in mind. I would personally NOT be comfortable with someone else trying to play an isolated version of the Moment/Big Bad Wolf as it is more suited to an event thing and still in many ways part of Rose and unwieldy to try to isolate separately. Osgood is the same way, both parts of her make up so much of how and WHO she is, that isolating one half isn't truly possible, nor recommended.
SO + 1 to Osgood having a mirror-self in all its oddity. Just my 2 cents as someone canon familiar & having RPed twins and everything else.
no subject
After much discussion, we've decided to give you three options for you to choose from.
1) Bring her from when she was still one person (with the condition that she will NOT be allowed to canon update as that would cause her to become two separate applicable characters).
2) Have a friend play the other Osgood. However, they will be required to write and submit their own application as if they were playing a different character because each player must have their own application.
3) Decide to not play this character in The Wake
We feel bringing them both in as is would cause too great a risk of playercest somewhere down the line and would force us to revisit the problems that we've already outlined when things could be very complicated with the character relations that both Osgood would have with other characters and/or each other. We're sorry for the inconvenience and we hope you understand.
no subject